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Old 10-17-2014, 08:37 AM   #13
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yep going to have to side with the SAFE call as well. The rule of the defensive player needing to be given a chance to make a play on the ball refers to a batted ball. Once it touches the pitcher there can be incidental contact. So unless ruled intentional I too would have called the runners safe.
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:57 PM   #14
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Sec. 5 A BASERUNNER IS OUT under the following circumstances:

C. If he is struck by a fair batted ball on fair ground WHILE OFF HIS BASE and before it passes a fielder, excluding the pitcher, unless of course, in the umpire’s judgement, no infielder is in position to field the ball.

As stated above by Rusty, the pitcher is excluded when judging if the ball can be played with reasonable effort. So in both cases, if the fielder had a chance(shortstop, second, etc) and it hit the runner, the runner would be out.

Of course, there is no mention about if the pitcher tips the ball, so it is one of those grey area rules. But, in any case, the rule is there to prevent a runner from interfering with a fielder making a play. In this case, the fielders still have a chance and the runner should not be able to affect that. Runner would be out in my mind
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Old 10-17-2014, 01:07 PM   #15
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The essence of the "excluding the pitcher" would be if you were a runner that gets hit between first and second (for example) where the pitcher doesn't have a play.
The rule is trying to illustrate that a runner on the baseline would usually be in front of the fielder "except the pitcher". If the pitcher makes a defensive move for the ball and redirects it into the runner, the ball has been played defensively and there is no longer interference by the runner...unless there is intentional and obvious attempt by the runner to make contact with the ball.
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