View Full Version : Rant


go5
07-15-2010, 09:06 AM
So I am getting tired if Ump's not knowing the bat rules (ASA). I am not a guy who gets all over umps for a bad call, etc unless it is really warranted. Most part they do a good job and just like us they are not pro's but just out to enjoy the game.

BUT... come on and get the bat list right! It is not that hard! SPN has to have a better education of these guys. Easy with website's displaying all the info these days plus just send out a news letter, etc to the umps or have an information session with all the carded guys and explain.

Here it is in a nutshell, simple.

If it doesn't have an ASA stamp it is out. All you need to know/carry on you is the NON ASA approved with certification markings. If it has a stamp and not on that list it is GTG , if not illegal!

I had two umps (experienced guys) make bad or no decision in the past week. One guy claimed he didn't know the bats so how could he call a guy on one (using a utrip) and second called the virus morphed illegal. I showed him the stamp but he said, no the virus is on the list. I told him yes that is true but this is the virus morphed, not the virus. Also had an ump not allow an PST blue because PST is on the list, nut he did not realize there are different versions of the PST and would not listen to the explanation.

It is any easy fix but ultimately it is up to SPN to get the umps up to speed. I don't think some of the older umps know how simple it is.

TMAC68
07-15-2010, 09:10 AM
So I am getting tired if Ump's not knowing the bat rules (ASA). I am not a guy who gets all over umps for a bad call, etc unless it is really warranted. Most part they do a good job and just like us they are not pro's but just out to enjoy the game.

BUT... come on and get the bat list right! It is not that hard! SPN has to have a better education of these guys. Easy with website's displaying all the info these days plus just send out a news letter, etc to the umps or have an information session with all the carded guys and explain.

Here it is in a nutshell, simple.

If it doesn't have an ASA stamp it is out. All you need to know/carry on you is the NON ASA approved with certification markings. If it has a stamp and not on that list it is GTG , if not illegal!

I had two umps (experienced guys) make bad or no decision in the past week. One guy claimed he didn't know the bats so how could he call a guy on one (using a utrip) and second called the virus morphed illegal. I showed him the stamp but he said, no the virus is on the list. I told him yes that is true but this is the virus morphed, not the virus. Also had an ump not allow an PST blue because PST is on the list, nut he did not realize there are different versions of the PST and would not listen to the explanation.

It is any easy fix but ultimately it is up to SPN to get the umps up to speed. I don't think some of the older umps know how simple it is.

Mike, as a coach, u should have the list with u. IF u have a current list, there is nothing they can say. I carry an updated list ALL the time and have no issues pointing it out. If it isnt on the list, out it goes.

I realize that everyone wants the ump to do that, but umps have a lot on there plate sometimes and it needs to fall in the laps of the coaches to help.

ZR27
07-15-2010, 09:10 AM
have the weblink on your cell phone.. pull the ump aside to show them..
if no data plan... print it out and keep it in your bag..

some umps just dont bother keeping up with the bats..

chowjai
07-15-2010, 09:11 AM
go5, hope someones got the eyes to spot out a painted ultra!

go5
07-15-2010, 09:21 AM
I hear you about printing out the list and I have one I usually carry but seriously I had an ump who had a list and still threw out the PST! Even brough it to me. I showed him the difference but did not matter one bit.

I do try but when the ump is clueless time to educate! Really as I said not that hard. Stamp is GTG except a small few.

I think some umps think they have to know the whole list so don't bother but they don't

evilaudi
07-15-2010, 09:58 AM
I know for the most part, most PST's are going to get thrown out as they mostly al ahve no graphics left if used at all. If the stamps aren't there with model number, they will probably toss it.

As for the other calls, I agree(and i'm an ump) that most umps don't know the list and have a hard time calling it.

Unlike myself, most umps aren't up n what the top bats are.

I also like to place some of the blame on the manufacturers making bats look so close to their U-trip counterparts.

Slopitchgal
07-15-2010, 11:14 AM
along with this topic LOL I was at a mens fast ball game last night..where there is a 'no composite bat rule' enforced. The umpire didnt even know which bats were composite. Guy comes up with a synergy2 hits a home run ..bases loaded. I wait till he hits..and all the guys run the bases...then I call the guy on it. He played stupid (even tho he bought the bat from us last season) :) The ump looks at the bat then calls them all out ...LOL
I was not a favorite at the game last night HAHA but the opposing team (that my bf plays on) was pretty thankful ..they won 7-6 HAHA

Didnt mean to hi-jack but just kinda funny how umps dont really know bats especially if they are composite or alluminum :)

go5
07-15-2010, 11:29 AM
I know for the most part, most PST's are going to get thrown out as they mostly al ahve no graphics left if used at all. If the stamps aren't there with model number, they will probably toss it.

I showed the unmp the ASA marks on this particular PST


As for the other calls, I agree(and i'm an ump) that most umps don't know the list and have a hard time calling it.

Unlike myself, most umps aren't up n what the top bats are.

My arument is the unps don't need to know the top bats. All they need to know is what to look for, not every model. ASA stamp = good EXCEPT a few models. All you really need to carry is the list with certifications marks that are not allowed, everything else needs a stamp.


I also like to place some of the blame on the manufacturers making bats look so close to their U-trip counterparts.

I don't agree, that is what the stamps are for.

rogueeffect
07-15-2010, 11:59 AM
I showed the unmp the ASA marks on this particular PST



My arument is the unps don't need to know the top bats. All they need to know is what to look for, not every model. ASA stamp = good EXCEPT a few models. All you really need to carry is the list with certifications marks that are not allowed, everything else needs a stamp.



I don't agree, that is what the stamps are for.

Just one comment..... considering the stories i hear about painted ultras.... and decals etc.... how difficult is it to make an ASA decal.... they should not make them look similar.... they should be distinct enough that the pitcher if he's aware of what is utrip vs asa can make the call from the mound - its his/her safety thats at risk.

go5
07-15-2010, 12:05 PM
Just one comment..... considering the stories i hear about painted ultras.... and decals etc.... how difficult is it to make an ASA decal.... they should not make them look similar.... they should be distinct enough that the pitcher if he's aware of what is utrip vs asa can make the call from the mound - its his/her safety thats at risk.

Sure, it is worth the consideration but as it stands right now, they way things are I would like to see the umps more educated regarding the bats. Most are different. Only a small few look the same

Also, I do know the difference and when the other team says until ump calls it out and then the ump says he doesn't know the difference then what do you do?

rogueeffect
07-15-2010, 01:10 PM
I play league only - so my opinion of it is a bit different.....

I'll use an example from recently:

- guy comes up in an ASA work league - we have access to fields for free so league fees are small - insurance and balls, and year-end trophies.... and is using a Juiced..... he zings it by the pitcher(me) - I couldnt remember if it was legal or not so checked my bberry between innings - and confirmed - told them that using it would void our insurance - and if they wanted to use it they'd be responsible for all injuries - it got put away right away.

If the ump doesnt know - I'm almost willing to bet the other team actually does - at least someone on that team..... now I don't know how this works for tournaments - in terms of what insurance is actually covered if any....

Alternatively - ask the league convenors to have a policy - if the umps don't throw out a bat because he doesnt know - that a photo is taken of the bat - and the team that continues to lose it can retroactively get a loss.

The best you could do in the reverse situation is having a email with the photo and the signature of the league convenor saying it is legal for future games with that ump.

I mean its only ball and these are only ideas.... that I doubt most people will use.

numbah37
07-15-2010, 01:50 PM
along with this topic LOL I was at a mens fast ball game last night..where there is a 'no composite bat rule' enforced. The umpire didnt even know which bats were composite. Guy comes up with a synergy2 hits a home run ..bases loaded. I wait till he hits..and all the guys run the bases...then I call the guy on it. He played stupid (even tho he bought the bat from us last season) :) The ump looks at the bat then calls them all out ...LOL
I was not a favorite at the game last night HAHA but the opposing team (that my bf plays on) was pretty thankful ..they won 7-6 HAHA

Didnt mean to hi-jack but just kinda funny how umps dont really know bats especially if they are composite or alluminum :)

Let me get this right, you're at a game your not playing in and you start beaking form the cheap seats? Living on the edge......:D

rackem22
07-15-2010, 02:14 PM
It must have been really bad to only have 1 bat on the bench.. only having a pst and then it gets thrown out.. did you have to forfeit or did you borrow a bat from the other team?????

I understand your frustration with the calls... contact SPN head office.. they will send you the test.. pass it.. an you get your red cap and ump card.

scott
07-15-2010, 02:51 PM
if Rackem passed so can you!!!!!!

Slopitchgal
07-15-2010, 03:37 PM
Let me get this right, you're at a game your not playing in and you start beaking form the cheap seats? Living on the edge......:D

...ya thats me LOL.....actually it wasnt a cheap seat it was my own personal lawnchair I brought from home....bf was playing...if one team was allowed to pull out composite bats I should have went and grabbed my psycho from my bag just to make it fair! but rules are rules and all teams should follow them? So I just assist the ump in enforcing them LOL.....

lump24
07-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Hey Fellas, Its Not Just Spn........spo......this Weekend At The Elims......one Of My Guys Sticker Fell Off The End Of His Bat......has Happend To Most Of My Bats.......they Would Not Let His Bat In! To Me That Is ********.

TecGuy8
07-15-2010, 05:24 PM
WE stopped playing SPN tourneys cuz half the team had bats that were banned and not everyone has the urge to run out and have 3 or 4 bats in their bag ... SPN is the worst .. have had no issues with SPO yet ...

Nothing wrong with chirpin from the cheap seats used to love it when the gf's were out there handing it to the other team as they went up to bat .. caused some rifts now and then but nothing a few farm girls couldn't handle lol .. :D

TMAC68
07-15-2010, 05:48 PM
Hey Fellas, Its Not Just Spn........spo......this Weekend At The Elims......one Of My Guys Sticker Fell Off The End Of His Bat......has Happend To Most Of My Bats.......they Would Not Let His Bat In! To Me That Is ********.

Thats considered tampering tho....bat is no longer "stock". I have always disagreed, kind of a dumb rule.

go5
07-15-2010, 10:14 PM
It must have been really bad to only have 1 bat on the bench.. only having a pst and then it gets thrown out.. did you have to forfeit or did you borrow a bat from the other team?????

I understand your frustration with the calls... contact SPN head office.. they will send you the test.. pass it.. an you get your red cap and ump card.

Not the point at all. There was no frustration with the calls at all just the lack of understanding about bats.

Guys pay good money for their bats and then umps wont let them use them when they are legal, complete BS. It is really not that hard, and I will repeat again (as you are obviously an ump) ASA stamp equals good to go EXCEPT a few models, carry that list and it is all you need to know. Like I said also had a morphed questioned.

go5
07-15-2010, 10:16 PM
So we had an ump tonight for a Utrip league check every bat and appologized a lot for doing so. I told him no problem I would rather you check sndf make sure then not and encouraged him to keep it up. He questioned the physco, called the league head ump and made sure. That is what I like to see! Good on the ump and the league for making sure their umps check!