View Full Version : Should illegal pitch be called before it crosses the plate


tbatti
07-11-2005, 06:08 PM
many arguments can be found here

http://sportsfreaksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1939&page=1&pp=10

Personally I don't think the ump should be calling illegal pitch verbally (hand signal yes) before it crosses the plate as he shouldn't be calling balls and strikes before it reaches the plate or call an obvious out at first until the 1st baseman catches the ball. It's all the same in my opinion. Verbal actions are distracting for batters. If a pitch is close to the lower or upper limit of the height restrictions, illegal or not, if it's going to be passing through the strike zone you should be swinging period, if it's between the letters and knees why are you relying on the ump to coach you on pitched balls before it crosses the plate and not swing.

A.M.
07-11-2005, 07:55 PM
My vote is in and I think you know what it is. Now you all get your arses over to SPN and say it, too.

KMKjr
07-11-2005, 08:43 PM
Like that would change anything with those azz......

Hand signal makes no sense.....when is the last time you were looking behind you when your hitting?

Cully
07-11-2005, 09:55 PM
I think the idea if for the pitcher and defence to see it and not have it distract the batter. I like the idea!

N&B 17
07-11-2005, 10:50 PM
In slo pitch , a ball or strike doesn't happen until the ball hits the mat or goes through the strike zone. An illegal pitch happens during the pitch, and when it happens the Umpire should call it loudly ,at the time it happens. Would you like the umpire to tell you after every inning which pitches were balls and which were strikes? :bit-wallb No of course not... so why do people think that the illegal pitch should be called after the fact, or the person who needs to know first , should find out last (if the ump just raises his arm).

Just me rambling on again ;)

t_dog_lxi
07-11-2005, 11:14 PM
It should be verbally called DURING the pitch. At that time no matter what it should be a dead ball. Even if the batter hits the ball, if the ump yelled that it was illegal, then it's a dead ball.

I hate swinging for a pitch and mid swing or just before my swing the ump yells ILLEGAL PITCH" it takes me out of focus on my swing. So that's why it should be a dead ball even if hit. Because chances are, whoever hit it was slighttly distracted by the ump yelling 4-5 feet behind him.

A.M.
07-11-2005, 11:18 PM
It should be verbally called DURING the pitch. At that time no matter what it should be a dead ball. Even if the batter hits the ball, if the ump yelled that it was illegal, then it's a dead ball.

I hate swinging for a pitch and mid swing or just before my swing the ump yells ILLEGAL PITCH" it takes me out of focus on my swing. So that's why it should be a dead ball even if hit. Because chances are, whoever hit it was slighttly distracted by the ump yelling 4-5 feet behind him.

And this is exactly why this discussion began, because twice in one at-bat, the ump pulled me out of a swing when he bawled out 'illegal pitch.'

A.M.
07-11-2005, 11:23 PM
Would you like the umpire to tell you after every inning which pitches were balls and which were strikes? :bit-wallb No of course not... so why do people think that the illegal pitch should be called after the fact, or the person who needs to know first , should find out last (if the ump just raises his arm).

Just me rambling on again ;)

Ummm, noooooo ... he's supposed to tell us which pitch is a ball and which pitch is a strike when the strike is complete. Which is a really good time to call it as an illegal pitch as well *because a ball is a ball is a ball.

An umpire doesn't have to tell you why a pitch is a ball, does he? Of course, some will say 'deep' or whatever. What makes a no-arc or a high-arc pitch so remarkably different from an everyday 'ball' that it has to be singled out in mid-pitch?
If a ball is thrown at me -- be it inside, outside, 'illegal' or low or what have you -- and I swing and miss, such is the penalty for me. If I choose not to swing, such is the penalty for the pitcher. This is one of the very basic tenets of baseball.
Please just allow to me to whiff at a stupid pitch if I want to.

N&B 17
07-12-2005, 12:42 AM
Ummm, noooooo ... he's supposed to tell us which pitch is a ball and which pitch is a strike when the strike is complete. Which is a really good time to call it as an illegal pitch as well *because a ball is a ball is a ball.

An umpire doesn't have to tell you why a pitch is a ball, does he? Of course, some will say 'deep' or whatever. What makes a no-arc or a high-arc pitch so remarkably different from an everyday 'ball' that it has to be singled out in mid-pitch?
If a ball is thrown at me -- be it inside, outside, 'illegal' or low or what have you -- and I swing and miss, such is the penalty for me. If I choose not to swing, such is the penalty for the pitcher. This is one of the very basic tenets of baseball.
Please just allow to me to whiff at a stupid pitch if I want to.


But it comes down to you swinging at a terrible pitch because you don't know if the ump will call it illegal, and if you don't swing and he make another mistake , you could strike out

N&B 17
07-12-2005, 12:43 AM
And Illegal means Illegal it shouldn't be allowed at all....Dead ball

A.M.
07-12-2005, 01:11 AM
But it comes down to you swinging at a terrible pitch because you don't know if the ump will call it illegal, and if you don't swing and he make another mistake , you could strike out

Well too bad for me. I can strike out on legal pitches, too. I know. I've done it.

sandrewb
07-12-2005, 04:05 AM
And Illegal means Illegal it shouldn't be allowed at all....Dead ball
I agree with this... If the batter is allowed to hit the ball the outcome of the pitch should be made after the ball crosses the plate.. If they are going to call illegal and the ball is then dead call it in the air. I think Illegal isnt really the best term to be using in thsi situation it should be more like.. Its gonna be a ball but swing if u want it... ;)

N&B 17
07-12-2005, 08:09 AM
... not calling the illegal pitch , is probably the #1 arguement an umpire faces.Game in and game out it's always the same... players want to know early. It is against the rules ,and the batter shouldn't have to decide whether or not it is legal before he swings or not. Illegal pitch is not the same thing as calling balls and strikes, it is legal or not. :)

bead54
07-12-2005, 09:32 AM
As a hitter, I want to know what the strike zone is. Do I need a canoe paddle at the plate or can I afford to wait for something I can drive to an open field....this coming from a guy who rarely sees a second pitch!
But if I manage to get 2 strikes on me and the pitcher starts firing in sky balls or low riders I want to know if it's going to be a freebie or will the ump take pleasure in ringing someone up.
Yes softball should be a hitter's game and if it's close get the damn bat off your shoulder and swing, but let's call the 15ft plus pitches illegal early.

tbatti
07-12-2005, 10:37 AM
It should be verbally called DURING the pitch. At that time no matter what it should be a dead ball. Even if the batter hits the ball, if the ump yelled that it was illegal, then it's a dead ball.

I hate swinging for a pitch and mid swing or just before my swing the ump yells ILLEGAL PITCH" it takes me out of focus on my swing. So that's why it should be a dead ball even if hit. Because chances are, whoever hit it was slighttly distracted by the ump yelling 4-5 feet behind him.

You argue against your vote. lol. The ump yelling throws you off, exactly then it should be a hand signal so you can swing at a pitch without interference.
Everyone please stop saying it should be a dead ball. That's NOT the issue here. That part isn't going to change. You people make me laugh.

Illegal or not if it's in the strike zone then it's hitable. So no verbal action is required.

Simple => Balls and strikes are called after it crosses the plate. Illegal pitch = BALL, therefore call it after it crosses the plate just like every other ball and strike pitched.

sandrewb
07-12-2005, 01:03 PM
Illegal pitch is not the same thing as calling balls and strikes, it is legal or not. :)
Yes it i illegal but u can still hit it... whats up with that?? Crack is illegal and your not allowed to hit it ;) :tongue:

A.M.
07-12-2005, 04:43 PM
You argue against your vote. lol. The ump yelling throws you off, exactly then it should be a hand signal so you can swing at a pitch without interference.
Everyone please stop saying it should be a dead ball. That's NOT the issue here. That part isn't going to change. You people make me laugh.

Illegal or not if it's in the strike zone then it's hitable. So no verbal action is required.

Simple => Balls and strikes are called after it crosses the plate. Illegal pitch = BALL, therefore call it after it crosses the plate just like every other ball and strike pitched.

I'm not sure how many times or how many different ways we have to say it, batti.

Travis
07-12-2005, 09:03 PM
Maybe its time to agree to disagree. :)

Popeye
07-12-2005, 10:54 PM
Just wondering what pitchers think of this. It sounds like everyone is answering as a batter but what do the pitchers think. As a picher I don't want illegal pitches called. I use this to my advantage when ever I can. 2 strikes on a batter, I might throw a fast one or one a little to high making the batter think. It works for more times then for the batter. Especially the newer players to the game. And now that the rocks(47cor, 525comp) are the official ball, I need all the help I can get.

Travis
07-13-2005, 12:06 AM
I agree the pitcher would take full advantage knowing illegal pitch would not be called.Good point Popeye.

Zed
07-13-2005, 01:32 AM
The point of calling an illegal pitch isn't to inform the pitcher at all it's to protect the batter from swinging at a pitch that is against the rules. Hence the verbal call. I'm going to have to agree with Travis there's obviously a difference of opinions here and it seems like people won't agree no matter what.

N&B 17
07-13-2005, 09:39 AM
We are talking about 2 different orgs. also... SPN = strike zone ... so even illegal pitches are hittable if going through the strike zone.
SPO = mat an illegal can hit the mat and be almost unhittable... and with 2 strikes, quite a knee knocker. :o

tbatti
07-13-2005, 10:36 AM
My opinions are based on a strike zone. I never said anything about mat ever.

sporty.17
07-13-2005, 05:48 PM
call it as soon as ump knows its junk...gives the batter time to decide if they want it...just my 2 pennies

tlby13
07-13-2005, 06:20 PM
many arguments can be found here

http://sportsfreaksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1939&page=1&pp=10

Personally I don't think the ump should be calling illegal pitch verbally (hand signal yes) before it crosses the plate as he shouldn't be calling balls and strikes before it reaches the plate or call an obvious out at first until the 1st baseman catches the ball. It's all the same in my opinion. Verbal actions are distracting for batters. If a pitch is close to the lower or upper limit of the height restrictions, illegal or not, if it's going to be passing through the strike zone you should be swinging period, if it's between the letters and knees why are you relying on the ump to coach you on pitched balls before it crosses the plate and not swing.

I don't agree with you on that. I think verbal is required, so you know what they see is 6-12 feet (may not be accurate or the same as the next guy). That's like saying baseball umps shouldn't verbally acknowledge a strike or a ball because he assumes everyone should be able to tell or know whether it was or not. I've had umps call no pitch on low balls, and then the pitcher comes back with the same damn pitch and the ump doesn't call it a no-pitch this time and it falls in for a strike. Same height as the strike he called before. Verbal is important, it's a rule and therefore should be called as such. If I decide I like it anyways, I swing at it anyways. That's why they have that option open. But umps should still be calling it.

Travis
07-13-2005, 11:50 PM
:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy Well put tlby.

tbatti
07-14-2005, 10:38 AM
I don't agree with you on that. I think verbal is required, so you know what they see is 6-12 feet (may not be accurate or the same as the next guy). That's like saying baseball umps shouldn't verbally acknowledge a strike or a ball because he assumes everyone should be able to tell or know whether it was or not. I've had umps call no pitch on low balls, and then the pitcher comes back with the same damn pitch and the ump doesn't call it a no-pitch this time and it falls in for a strike. Same height as the strike he called before. Verbal is important, it's a rule and therefore should be called as such. If I decide I like it anyways, I swing at it anyways. That's why they have that option open. But umps should still be calling it.

Thanks for prooving my point umps don't verbally acknowledge a ball or strike before it gets to the plate the batter decides that. lol. Umps should verbally call a ball and strike and they DO after it crosses the plate. illegal pitch is a ball call it after it crosses the plate. It's the batter responsibilty to to determine balls and strikes before it gets to the plate and the umps responsibility to call a ball and strike after it crosses the plate. Illegal pitch = ball people. think about it.

side note tlby no-pitch is a timeout deadplay, 2 very different circumstances.

sandrewb
07-14-2005, 12:48 PM
That's like saying baseball umps shouldn't verbally acknowledge a strike or a ball because he assumes everyone should be able to tell or know whether it was or not.
The umps verbally calls a ball or strike after it crosses the plate not while its still in the air. Why is an "illegal pitch" so different.. its ruled as a ball because it went to high.. its up to the batter to determin if the ball will be wide left or right or to deep or short.. why it is up to the ump to tell the batter that the ball is to high before it reaches him..
I've had umps call no pitch on low balls, and then the pitcher comes back with the same damn pitch and the ump doesn't call it a no-pitch this time and it falls in for a strike.
if the ump didnt call illegal why do u let it fall in for the strike?? shouldnt u know then by the time it gets to ya that it is not going to be called and will be a strike?

Ps. Liking the bat i got off ya :bit-clap:

bead54
07-14-2005, 01:47 PM
The whole point of calling illegal pitch is to protect the hitter from the pitcher stretching/breaking the rules. If it isn't going to be called, then why bother with the 6-12 foot arc rule?

Let the pitchers fire in as low and fast or high as they want. The ump could then use his discretion to give warnings for excessive speed or height. 3 "strikes" and the pitcher is tossed.

There needs to be consequences for the pitcher not following the rules. Right now those are that the batter is told the pitch is illegal and can leave land for a ball. Without consequences the pitcher could continue to throw very high or low pitches because the batter doesn't know if they will be illegal or not. The result is hitters chasing some bad pitches.

That being said, the only real time this is an issue is with 2 strikes. So I don't see what the big deal is.

Poor horse has been beaten long past dead. Anyone got a new debate??

sandrewb
07-14-2005, 02:27 PM
Poor horse has been beaten long past dead. Anyone got a new debate??

The horse got sick.. so i shot it.. Dont know why your suppose to shoot it tho. now i got a horse with a broken leg and a gun shot wound.. But i tell ya what if it aint better by tomorrow imma shoot it again. :bit-clap:

tlby13
07-14-2005, 06:08 PM
Ps. Liking the bat i got off ya :bit-clap:

Glad you like it, wish I would have swung it myself, just have way too many bats!


I also agree 100% with Beads, just couldn't figure out how to put two quotes up in one posting. Well said, kinda what I was trying to say, just worded better. thumbs-yes

tbatti
07-14-2005, 06:21 PM
The whole point of calling illegal pitch is to protect the hitter from the pitcher stretching/breaking the rules. If it isn't going to be called, then why bother with the 6-12 foot arc rule?

Let the pitchers fire in as low and fast or high as they want. The ump could then use his discretion to give warnings for excessive speed or height. 3 "strikes" and the pitcher is tossed.

There needs to be consequences for the pitcher not following the rules. Right now those are that the batter is told the pitch is illegal and can leave land for a ball. Without consequences the pitcher could continue to throw very high or low pitches because the batter doesn't know if they will be illegal or not. The result is hitters chasing some bad pitches.

That being said, the only real time this is an issue is with 2 strikes. So I don't see what the big deal is.

Poor horse has been beaten long past dead. Anyone got a new debate??

you mean one where your arguments make sense. lol. You're not chasing a bad pitch if it goes through the strike zone illegal or not. The rule still is being called by hand signal during the pitch and not verbally distracting the batter if he's swinging at one and the infield gets distracted as well to boot. there is consequences the pitch is called a ball after it passes the plate. The ump calls all balls and strikes after it crosses the plate and the batter decides that when the pitch is coming in. an illegal pitch is a ball and the batter has to decide that as well when the pitch is coming in. you trust the ump to call balls and strikes and you have to trust the ump to call illegal pitches as well. no difference.

It's funny how some of you argue for it but your points support it to be not being called verbally. I wonder if you really know what your trying to say. :help:

A.M.
07-14-2005, 07:59 PM
Anyone got a new debate??

Don't you have the ability to start one?

Chug48
07-14-2005, 09:24 PM
The whole point of calling illegal pitch is to protect the hitter from the pitcher stretching/breaking the rules. If it isn't going to be called, then why bother with the 6-12 foot arc rule?

Let the pitchers fire in as low and fast or high as they want. The ump could then use his discretion to give warnings for excessive speed or height. 3 "strikes" and the pitcher is tossed.

There needs to be consequences for the pitcher not following the rules. Right now those are that the batter is told the pitch is illegal and can leave land for a ball. Without consequences the pitcher could continue to throw very high or low pitches because the batter doesn't know if they will be illegal or not. The result is hitters chasing some bad pitches.

That being said, the only real time this is an issue is with 2 strikes. So I don't see what the big deal is.

Poor horse has been beaten long past dead. Anyone got a new debate??

Just to play devils advocate here, the 6-12ft arc rule already isn't in effect in NSA it is 6-10ft and they do not call illegal pitch. That doesn;t change the fact it was one!!

The arc rule is still in effect you just don't get the call until after the pitch is complete,much the same as ball and strike calls in any organization.The rule is mute really unless you have 2 strikes,a nd If anyone has 2 strikes and you are worried if it is close, you should be swinging anyway!!

Take Care

Popeye
07-14-2005, 09:37 PM
Not to start a war but why is it all about the batter? You want the ump to call it to "protect" the batter but what about the pitcher? I think its time to stop worry about the batter. If you don't like the pitch, don't swing. I need all the help as a pitcher to try and keep the batter from drilling the ball at me. With the new balls now a 6-7 ft pitch comes back up the middle faster then someone swinging at one too high. I think it time to "protect" the pitcher, not the batter. thumbs-yes

Chug48
07-14-2005, 10:05 PM
Hmmm, let me see, We now allow the pitcher to pitch from 10 ft further back in NSA and I believe 15 ft further back in SPN.Also NSA and SPN allow the pitcher to wear a trapper while pitching, they have lowered the core and compression of the balls, and none of this helps you as a pitcher?

I pitch so I guess I have to ask, what else is it an organization can do to help you out? I feel that as a pitcher I have had my best interests looked out for and I feel safe, if I didn't I wouldn't step on the mound.

I know allot of people keep saying the organizations need to look after the pitcher better, but what else can really be done? You are allowed to wear a helmet if you choose or shin pads under your uniform etc etc, not sure how the organizations can do more than what they have already?

Take Care

sandrewb
07-15-2005, 04:07 AM
Also how is callin it an illegal pitch before it crosses the palte even help the pitcher?? if the batter likes it its gettin cranked anyways.. So im hoping when u hear illegal u dont let your guard down and think your safe... Sorry just not seeing your point about it helping the pitcher..

bead54
07-15-2005, 10:43 AM
you mean one where your arguments make sense. lol. You're not chasing a bad pitch if it goes through the strike zone illegal or not. The rule still is being called by hand signal during the pitch and not verbally distracting the batter if he's swinging at one and the infield gets distracted as well to boot. there is consequences the pitch is called a ball after it passes the plate. The ump calls all balls and strikes after it crosses the plate and the batter decides that when the pitch is coming in. an illegal pitch is a ball and the batter has to decide that as well when the pitch is coming in. you trust the ump to call balls and strikes and you have to trust the ump to call illegal pitches as well. no difference.

It's funny how some of you argue for it but your points support it to be not being called verbally. I wonder if you really know what your trying to say. :help:

Who said anything about chasing bad pitches? All I'm saying is that it should be called as it stands in the rule book -"called immediately when it occurs" -, otherwise just get rid of it entirely. Why have rules if you're not going to use them. :rolleyes:

tbatti
07-15-2005, 10:47 AM
exactly, part of yelling illegal is a saftey issue as well. defense relaxes due to the fact it adds confusion while a live pitch is coming towards the plate. I don't think all the SPN gurues have thought of everything. They are just to stuborn to realize their flaws. Like I said I've played both and hand signal just simply has more benefits than a verbal call on both the offence and D.

sandrewb
07-15-2005, 10:47 AM
Who said anything about chasing bad pitches? All I'm saying is that it should be called as it stands in the rule book -"called immediately when it occurs" -, otherwise just get rid of it entirely. Why have rules if you're not going to use them. :rolleyes:
I dont think its an disscussion on if the ruling is in the rule book or not..It more of would u perfer it to be called b4 or after? Just because something is a rule doesnt mean u have to like it.

bead54
07-15-2005, 10:47 AM
Don't you have the ability to start one?

I'm not very creative.....but since you asked.

I'll start a new thread.

tbatti
07-15-2005, 10:49 AM
Who said anything about chasing bad pitches? All I'm saying is that it should be called as it stands in the rule book -"called immediately when it occurs" -, otherwise just get rid of it entirely. Why have rules if you're not going to use them. :rolleyes:

Who said don't use the rule. The rule is still in place with the hand signal. Most everyone has said something about chasing bad pitches. I never said eliminate the rule. Your SPN rulebook needs to be amended for obvious reasons.

bead54
07-15-2005, 10:59 AM
Who said don't use the rule. The rule is still in place with the hand signal. Most everyone has said something about chasing bad pitches. I never said eliminate the rule. Your SPN rulebook needs to be amended for obvious reasons.

I never said that you wanted to eliminate the rule...just change it to suit your needs ;). But I actually just checked the SPN site's rule book to get the definition, so maybe you should check your rule book. Just call it as stated - immediately when it occurs. I mean, there are a number of rules that I don't agree with 100%, but it's part of the game, so you live with them.

I can remember being bailed out by an illegal pitch being called early when I have 2 strikes, but I don't remember ever having it disrupt my swing. I think this is a classic mountain out of a mole hill.

bead54
07-15-2005, 11:02 AM
The rule is mute really unless you have 2 strikes,a nd If anyone has 2 strikes and you are worried if it is close, you should be swinging anyway!!

I agree 100%! I guess I just don't find the call during the pitch a distraction like some people do.

tlby13
07-15-2005, 02:06 PM
It's funny how some of you argue for it but your points support it to be not being called verbally. I wonder if you really know what your trying to say. :help:

Actually, your reply to what I had posted made no sense to me at all, and was quite a bit off of what I was trying to say. Not sure who's not knowing what who's saying here, or just maybe someone not understanding what some people are saying.

tlby13
07-15-2005, 02:12 PM
Thanks for prooving my point umps don't verbally acknowledge a ball or strike before it gets to the plate the batter decides that. lol. Umps should verbally call a ball and strike and they DO after it crosses the plate. illegal pitch is a ball call it after it crosses the plate. It's the batter responsibilty to to determine balls and strikes before it gets to the plate and the umps responsibility to call a ball and strike after it crosses the plate. Illegal pitch = ball people. think about it.

side note tlby no-pitch is a timeout deadplay, 2 very different circumstances.

We must play in different leagues with different rules then, and maybe that's why your confusing what people are saying. An illegal pitch happens during the pitch (height of arc), not after, so why would they wait until afterwards to call it?? It's not supposed to matter how it crosses the plate, it's supposed to matter how high or low it is, which is during the pitch, which is why it should be called DURING THE PITCH.
In the example I had provided before, the ump had called a no-pitch during the pitch, and when the pitcher came back with the same pitch I was waiting for the call, but there wasn't one. Therefore, I know this time the ump doesn't think it is an illegal pitch, otherwise he would be calling it, and therefore I should be on the ball and swinging. Not sure what you were reading out of my previous post.

tbatti
07-15-2005, 03:42 PM
Yeah you are right, you can't explain what you are saying and you don't understand the part about why after it crosses the plate. That part is very clear. I'll wait for you to catch up lol. The joy of debating I love it. I enjoy it :)


No-pitch is not the same thing as an illegal pitch I'll leave it at that. ;)

tlby13
07-15-2005, 04:11 PM
Why leave it at that?? Why not explain to us the difference then, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's not following you here.

Is this a U-trip thing? 'Cause if it is, then I can understand the confusion as I don't play u-trip and their pitching is much different.

By the way, not really in the mood for smart-ass comments either. Just explain what you mean.

tbatti
07-15-2005, 04:50 PM
No pitch is a dead ball no play like a timeout. No pitch means no pitch no play. For example baserunner not getting back to his back on a previous foul and the pitcher pitches etc. Illegal pitch is still a live play not a dead ball or timeout as the batter can still swing at an illegal pitch. the batter can not swing an no pitch b/c the play is dead. Both SPN and NSA differentiate the no pitch from the illegal pitch. They are completely different. Hope that helps. Go Burris Go.

Zed
07-15-2005, 07:13 PM
tbatti, a quick pitch is declared a "no pitch", but by your rationale they should be able to swing at it if they want to correct? It's their choice right?

A.M.
07-15-2005, 08:01 PM
Hey, I just want to point out that Lance here in Calgary did a great job calling the illegal pitch well before the ball approached the plate. Of course, I also recognize Lance as being one of the best umpires around here. Always confident knowing we're going to have a great game called when he's behind the plate.
Of course, then you have guys like the Professor who lectured Wall and K. during our game Wednesday nite.

Zed
07-15-2005, 09:08 PM
I see. So the complaint is about umpires not calling the pitch on time. Blame it on umpires not doing their job not the rule itself.

tbatti
07-15-2005, 10:08 PM
tbatti, a quick pitch is declared a "no pitch", but by your rationale they should be able to swing at it if they want to correct? It's their choice right?

tell me how you determine that from what I said??? No a quick pitch is a no pitch and a batter can't hit b/c it's a deadball. but by tlby13 rationale you should be able to hit it which is incorrect. You can only swing at an illegal pitch I think I've only said that 50 times.

Zed
07-16-2005, 01:07 AM
You've said the same thing 50 times and nobody seems to care so quit trying to beat it into people if they don't agree.

The reason why I said your rationale states you should be able to swing at a "no pitch" is because in 3 posts you said that if it's through the strike zone you should be swinging anyway. Regardless of whether it's 14' or 3', 10mph or 40mph. Why should a no pitch stop you if you want to swing anyway?

A.M.
07-16-2005, 01:13 AM
You've said the same thing 50 times and nobody seems to care so quit trying to beat it into people if they don't agree.

The reason why I said your rationale states you should be able to swing at a "no pitch" is because in 3 posts you said that if it's through the strike zone you should be swinging anyway. Regardless of whether it's 14' or 3', 10mph or 40mph. Why should a no pitch stop you if you want to swing anyway?

Could you guys please stop clouding the issue with your Fight of the Pee Pees?
Two points:
1. A no-pitch is a dead ball as tbatti has already pointed out. An illegal pitch is not a dead ball. That's the difference, Zed, and you as an umpire should know this.
2. Tbatti has said the same thing 50 times and the same people are saying the opposite thing the same way 50 times in response. Fair's fair. That's what debate is all about. Now quit being such a f***ing princess.

Zed
07-16-2005, 10:08 AM
A princess? Ummm okayyy. I know the difference between a dead ball and an illegal pitch thanks. My point was that he stated many times that you should be able to swing at any pitch as long as it goes through the shoulders and knees. Why should a no pitch be any different? And please don't tell me it's because the ball is dead.

tbatti
07-16-2005, 12:53 PM
A princess? Ummm okayyy. I know the difference between a dead ball and an illegal pitch thanks. My point was that he stated many times that you should be able to swing at any pitch as long as it goes through the shoulders and knees. Why should a no pitch be any different? And please don't tell me it's because the ball is dead.

I've stated as long as an illegal pitch goes through the strike zone (not a no pitch pitch dumba$$) you can swing. A deadball is a no pitch you can't swing at a no pitch ZED I NEVER said you could, the play is dead. That's why a no pitch is different, how can you swing a deadball deadplay. It's very different. Please stop trying to twist it. No actually please try it, it makes your arguments hold less water. lol.

Also 50 times people argue the other way and their arguments appear uneducated and some people even argued against their own vote for verbal which goes to show they don't comprehend it. lol

Actually the thing I find most entertaining is that SPN players that have only played SPN can't see the light or refuse to listen to an alternative that could better their game. I've played both rules at least I can make an experienced opinion.

If the dead horse keeps getting up I will keep shooting.

Travis
07-16-2005, 03:14 PM
I LOVE SLOPITCH. :bit-clap: :bit-wallb thumbs-yes cheers

sandrewb
07-16-2005, 04:56 PM
I LOVE SLO PITCH TO... but it still shouldnt be called :tongue:


The reason why I said your rationale states you should be able to swing at a "no pitch" is because in 3 posts you said that if it's through the strike zone you should be swinging anyway. Regardless of whether it's 14' or 3', 10mph or 40mph. Why should a no pitch stop you if you want to swing anyway?

Because a no pitch is usually called from (and correct me if im wrong im new to soft ball) a play that shouldnt be taking place.. Such as the pitch shouldnt of been pitched yet and so on.. Therefore since the play should never of happened it shouldnt be able to be hit. And i dont see how u got the idea of swinging at a no pitch from any1s post... please read more carefully. thumbs-yes or ask for clarification or :help:

N&B 17
07-16-2005, 09:09 PM
It seems that the results from the poll are showing the way it should be :bit-clap: 3:1 ratio says verbal . thumbs-yes

sandrewb
07-16-2005, 09:39 PM
It seems that the results from the poll are showing the way it should be :bit-clap: 3:1 ratio says verbal . thumbs-yes

Actually to be correct its showing that a 3:1 ratio believe it is the way it should be. And that Some people feel it should be changed. ;)

Zed
07-17-2005, 12:51 AM
Okay so I'm a princess and a dumbass. It's good to know that people are resorting to childish remarks I like that. Once again people are assuming that because there is a disagreement they must be from another organization and have never played or umpired elsewhere.
Here's the bottom line. The illegal pitch was put in the rulebook to prevent people from swinging at pitches that don't conform to the regulations. If you don't call it until the ball has landed then the rule might as well not be used because it doesn't do any good.

Have you guys ever heard of the 80/20 rule? This is a perfect example of it. If it weren't for the 80/20 rule there would be no NSA. It's no better than any other organization it's just different. If you're not happy with another organization or have been banned/suspended/whatever then of course you would go looking for somewhere else to play. If you are with a slo-pitch organization that you're happy with then good for you. Why would you care about the organization that booted you and keep ragging on about how unfair they are and how they singled you out? Move on!
Oh yeah and I hate the mat too!
Just wanted to get all my pet peeves out at once.

sandrewb
07-17-2005, 01:43 AM
Just wanted to get all my pet peeves out at once.
And well done :bit-clap: maybe this should just be closed or something.. it has been beaten to death..

Any1 wanna go drinkin? cheers cheers

Travis
07-17-2005, 12:49 PM
You keep doing this :puke: when u drink better stick to water. thumbs-yes

sandrewb
07-17-2005, 02:32 PM
You keep doing this :puke: when u drink better stick to water. thumbs-yes
When was the last time i :puke: when i cheers with you?

Travis
07-17-2005, 08:29 PM
I just heard humours. :)

A.M.
07-17-2005, 09:58 PM
Okay so I'm a princess and a dumbass. It's good to know that people are resorting to childish remarks I like that.

Oh for Christ's sake, Zed. Send me your address so I can mail you a box of tissues. On the SPN board, you're constantly putting down people who don't see eye-to-eye with you but when the tables turn, you're the victim.
You must vote NDP, too.

sandrewb
07-17-2005, 10:40 PM
You must vote NDP, too.
:notworthy ALL HAIL NDP :notworthy
cheers

A.M.
07-17-2005, 10:59 PM
:notworthy ALL HAIL NDP :notworthy
cheers


Stoner ...

sandrewb
07-18-2005, 02:29 AM
Stoner ...
Ouch i :eek: am appauled

A.M.
07-18-2005, 02:44 AM
Ouch i :eek: am appauled


I would be more impressed if you were appalled. :D

Zed
07-18-2005, 09:17 PM
You must vote NDP, too.

Umm no actually I didn't vote NDP. As if it matters to you anyway. Sounds like somebodies batteries ran out last night. You gettin lonely yet?

A.M.
07-18-2005, 10:02 PM
Sounds like somebodies batteries ran out last night.

I guess I should apologize for stealing your last batch.

sandrewb
07-19-2005, 02:27 PM
:tongue: I would be more impressed if you were appalled. :D

Hey 7 out of 8 letters right.. Thats a 87.5%... Nothing wrong with them marks :bit-clap: :tongue:

A.M.
07-19-2005, 05:09 PM
:tongue:

Hey 7 out of 8 letters right.. Thats a 87.5%... Nothing wrong with them marks :bit-clap: :tongue:

Take it where you can get it, right? thumbs-yes

Ballz2dawall
08-12-2005, 07:42 PM
If you dont like it dont swing at it...Unless there is 2 strikes. Then you might have to.

Gary Mac
08-15-2005, 05:35 PM
Good lord.

It's slow pitch!

The ball is 12", and is travelling something like 6 mph.

If it goes through your strike zone, just hit the friggin' thing.

Why do we need an arc limit if the pitcher has to throw it where you can easily swing at it?

Throwing a 30' arc and having it go through a strike zone would be a tough challenge because of how sharp an angle that would be. If a pitcher can pull that off, then hell... let him. It's still going to pass through your strike zone right?

I find "arc-whiners" sad. You want an easy game made even easier. 250 pound guys spending $500 on a bat and they cry that a SLOW pitch is too high. boo hoo.

It's not a hitter's game, it's a HITTING game, meaning, everyone should be able to put the ball in play and keep the defense involved.

Arc-whiners should play T-ball.

Bubba
09-07-2005, 02:00 AM
An umpire is not obligated to say anything at all. Verbal calls are done by umpires as a courtesy to players.

Yes this sucks but that is the rule for umpires. They don't have to say a thing.

Makes for a great game if you're deaf, but most of us are not.

Zed
09-07-2005, 07:28 PM
Most associations say that the umpire is supposed to make a verbal call as well as a physical action to identify an illegal pitch.

Tsuga
09-11-2005, 09:52 AM
Most of the "illegal" pitches I have seen called in our league and in some SPN tournaments, were pitches around my knees or flat around my waist. I can tee off or do a running swing at them, so, it does not matter to me. Those are the pitches that I can go yard with. I would prefer the umps not call them to deter the pitchers from throwing them. :D

Diamond 1
03-15-2010, 08:58 PM
I know this is an old thread, as and umpire I can't believe that players would rather not have the ump verbally call an illegal pitch while the ball is in the air.
Granted we can't call them all, but I would rather let the batter know.
The thing I can't stand is when you do verbally call illegal, and the batter cries that I called it too late and he could stop his swing in time. Give it a rest guys, your not Tiger Woods. Its slo-pitch. You can stop a swing.

kennycar
03-16-2010, 07:00 AM
Hand signals only work if the umps are consistent and good. I leave all illegal high pitches but not all illegal low ones, I find verbal calls VERY annoying especially during my swing, if they call it super early before I start my swing its one thing but usually its just as your sizing up where to put the ball, id say almost everytime it effs up my hit. I wish they could have arch of the pitches regulated by lazer or something. Im sure theres all kinds of things that would make that difficult but I bet its possible. If the MLB can do it why cant we :P

Hey Juice just for you I will put up a lazer and ring a bell when its time to hit so when I say the pitch is illegal you wont hear me say it:stir

Just hit the dam ball and we wont half to call itthumbs-yes